Curse

Stuart444 · May 02, 2008, 09:21 PM // 21:21

[Healing Monk Tahlkora;OwAD0sPPPWaPydjuCS2ItkYC]

[Protection Monk Dunkoro;OwUUMy29WIOzkwIF5uWPyA9ABAA]

I made up the one for Tahlkora using whatever healing spells I could had available and as for the protection one, I THINK i got that off of pvx wiki...I could be wrong though.

Any suggestions to improve them are welcomed and I will take them into consideration depending on what skills I have available/skill i am able to get at my current point in the game.

I have all campaigns btw, just incase that helps

kev read · May 02, 2008, 09:28 PM // 21:28

I would take Word of healing and Signet of Rejuvenation on Talkhora (for e manage, she has none atm)

Also, Heal other isnt too good, Healing Breeze is inefficient, and with all of those short recharge spells you dont need so many... I would recommend WoH, Signet of Rejuvenation, and one other (I like Healing Whisper). The other slots should be filled with e-manage (split atts: 12-9-9 (HP, DF, IM), add in power drain and leech signet (or waste not, want not).

On dunki I would remove Gift of Health, and add in Zealous Benediction instead of GoH... split 12-9-9... also shielding hands wouldn't be bad...

MisterT69 · May 02, 2008, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Needs more HB, 'nuff said lol

Gift3d · May 02, 2008, 10:13 PM // 22:13

Needs less breeze and other worthless skills that cost too much energy, and more skills that are actually good.

Thor Tyr · May 02, 2008, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Try these and why use a sig with a monk

[rc prot;OwAS8YIPCkZyKhiUPmIb6YC]

[Ogden;OwYT043A5Zj87kITfkxHJuiGBA]

MasterSasori · May 02, 2008, 10:18 PM // 22:18

Drop Leech signet. Power drain nets you energy if it is used but Leech sig doesn't necessarily do that for you.

Breeze, WoC, Resurrection, heal other are all useless

No RoF (on heros), disable prot spirit.

Antithesis · May 03, 2008, 12:15 AM // 00:15

PvE two healer backline...

Word of Healing Hybrid -

[word of healing][dwayna's kiss][signet of rejuvenation][cure hex][no skill][shield of absorption][aegis][glyph of lesser energy]

Optional slot - [[spotless mind], [[spotless soul], [[dismiss condition], [[remove hex]. Dismiss Condition is not the best idea, it'll drain your Monk's energy. Offload condition removal to another backline character.

Why? - Anti-spike healing, spot healing, hex removal, spike prot, team prot, good energy management. No rez because an inactive Monk is a Monk not doing it's job.

N/Rt Restorer -

[weapon of remedy][no skill][mend body and soul][spirit light][protective was kaolai][life][signet of lost souls][death pact signet]

Optional slot - [[weapon of warding], [[vengeful weapon], [[soothing memories], [[splinter weapon], [[shadowsong]. Elite can be swapped for [[weapon of fury] or [[weapon of quickening].

Why? - strong condition removal, spike heals, party heals, 0 DP battle rez, good energy management. Optional AoE damage, spammable Blind, spike prot, cheap heals, life steal, physical buff, caster buff.

Don't run Hero Monks unless partying with another player, the two Hench Monks are usually enough. Supplement with a N/Rt if need be.

Chthon · May 03, 2008, 04:15 AM // 04:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart444

[Healing Monk Tahlkora;OwAD0sPPPWaPydjuCS2ItkYC]

[Protection Monk Dunkoro;OwUUMy29WIOzkwIF5uWPyA9ABAA]

To be honest, they stink. Let's see what we can do to understand why they stink so they can be improved.

---

Starting with the first build:

First off, we see that it has a bunch of redundant spot heals. These skills all do the same thing, and they all have such fast recharge times that you've also got 2 or more to choose from to do the same job. That's a waste of space. Pick 2 good ones and ditch the rest. I'll give you a hint, the 3 best choices are [word of healing], [dwayna's kiss](+[healer's boon]), and [ethereal light]+[healer's boon].

So we drop glimmer, heal other, and words of comfort. I might add that words of comfort has been rightfully called a spell that's so bad it doesn't deserve to exist. With options that remove a condition with a heal on the side, why use a heal that requires a condition, but doesn't remove it?

Signet of rejuv can stay. It's energy management through bar topping. By cleaning up incidental damage before it gets serious it makes the next hit less likely to be serious, and less likely to require an expensive response. (I should note that there's a lot of people in the monk forum who disagree with me on that.)

Healing Breeze used to be a terrible skill. Now it's just a bad skill. It's still really bad for monk primaries because (1) it only gives you half the divine favor bonus that two 5e spells would, (2) the heal/energy ratio is not great compared to the best straight heals (listed above), and (3) you suffer the cost of regen being slow, without benefiting from the fire-and-forget-and-go-hit-stuff aspect that makes it slightly less bad on offensive classes. Definitely remove it.

DKiss is good. Keep it.

Remove Hex is vastly inferior to [cure hex].

Resurrect is vastly inferior to many rezzes. If you put rez on a monk hero, I'd suggest [resurrection chant]. Some people argue that you should but rez on any monks, even hero monks, because (1) they should be too busy to rez, and (2) that space can be better used for something to prevent a death in the first place.

So, what to put in the remaining spaces? You already have straight heals, bar topping, hex removal, and rez. You are lacking condition removal, party healing and prot. [dismiss condition] is usually the best condition removal out there thanks to the side heal. Despite the buffs to other options, [heal party] remains the only viable party heal since LoD's death. [protective spirit]/[spirit bond] and [aegis] are the top two picks from prot, followed by [shield of absorption] and [guardian]. All of that won't quite fit on the bar, so you will have to pick and choose.

----

On to the second bar.

RoF is (1) a skill that the hero AI handles terribly, and (2) highly overrated outside of some hard mode areas. Remove it.

Gift of Health is mostly pointless now that WoH can self-target (as is ZB). Unless you're facing a specifically condition-heavy area that makes RC really, really shine, use WoH instead. (Even in condition-heavy areas, mass condition removal can be off-sourced to other characters, most notably necros with the new Foul Feast plus Infuse Condition/Contagion/Plague Signet/Plague Sending.

Nothing wrong with SoA and PS.

The mesmer interrupts aren't bad skills, but you have better things to do with spaces on a monk bar. If you really need energy, GoLE tends to work better.

Rez Sig?! What? If you're going to put a rez on a monk, at least make it a hard rez.

What to put into the empty spaces? Two straight heals (see the list above), a condition removal to replace RC (probably dismiss), a hex removal (probably Cure Hex), and whatever was listed above that didn't make it into the first bar.

Final note: I agree with Antithesis; Don't bring monk heroes unless you've got a second player with you. While you can make a monk hero build that's twice as good as Mhenlo, you can make offensive hero builds that are 50 times as good as the available offensive heroes.

Racthoh · May 03, 2008, 07:34 AM // 07:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

Word of Healing Hybrid -

[word of healing][dwayna's kiss][signet of rejuvenation][cure hex][no skill][shield of absorption][aegis][glyph of lesser energy]

Optional slot - [[spotless mind], [[spotless soul], [[dismiss condition], [[remove hex]. Dismiss Condition is not the best idea, it'll drain your Monk's energy. Offload condition removal to another backline character.

I would add Protective Spirit to the optionals even if it's disabled and just microed. Otherwise +1 to it; I even have the skills in the same spots on my monks.

Super Igor · May 03, 2008, 11:15 AM // 11:15

hm, these monk builds dont look very good to me, because:

Your healer has too much spammable yet useless skill like [glimmer of light] and [healing breeze], both are complete energy killers for a hero monk wilst are quite inferior to say, WoH [heal Other]... quite spammable too and it is a 10 energy spell... worthless energy killah.

[Resurrect] is the worst rez in game, you rez with it and basic ally leave the rezzed target die again! with only 25% maximum hp and no energy that character wont be able to do anything, at all.

[words of comfort]... you have rc in you party who removes all of the conditions quite fast, why use spell that gives +hp on conditions then? Also, its only half viable with [HB] imo.

Use something like Antithesis just posted for the healer.

ok, im too lazy to comment on you prot.

Stuart444 · May 03, 2008, 01:16 PM // 13:16

ok, first of all, I'll just note that I do play with another human party member all the time.

Now, may I just ask, why does everyone seem to love WoH soo much? I am just curious because every monk build I see, the elite is usually WoH. I might try out a build with that myself but I wonder if someone can enlighten me as to why everyone loves it?

I'll also admit, while doing Tahlkora's healing build, I just used whatever healing spells I could (after I used the ones I wanted to use like Glimmer of light and heal other) I was also considering going to cap light of deliverance (I think thats how its spelled) instead of glimmer of light.

to be honest, I don't know why I put the rez signet on Dunkoro, and as for using resurrect on tahlkora, I looked for any quick resurrection spell i had (as in quick to cast)

I also tend to look at the wiki before putting on skills, one reason I haven't even considered WoH is because on the wiki under notes it says; " * Heroes seem to use this more often after a fight instead of in battle. "

the reason I have restore condition and I may just keep it (unless there is a better elite for a protection monk) is because it removes ALL conditions which can help in areas where you get lots of enemyes who puts condition after condition on you (I think one area was the southern shiverpeaks)

I'm still open to suggestions before I go and try out some of the suggestions that have been posted (or in other cases, before I go and cap an elite that has been mentioned here lol)

MagmaRed · May 03, 2008, 01:34 PM // 13:34

The build for Tahlkora fails BIG time. There is one reason I can say that as a fact. That one reason is ATTRIBUTES. I'm not sure how many people noticed it, but you have her set with 12 Healing , 12 Prot, and 3 Smiting.

Not 1 skill from Smiting, and not 1 skill from Prot. If anything, with those skills, use 12 Healing and 12 Divine Favor.

Now, that build is still bad. Because you are using it with an RC Monk, there is no use for Words of Comfort. Glimmer is spammable, and a sizeable heal. Since you have Glimmer, you don't need WoC. Glimmer is outclassed by Word of Healing though, so I'd suggest switching.

Resurrect, as mentioned, is the worst rez in the game. Take any of the Healing Prayers rez skills over that, or Rebirth and make sure the rez is disabled or they stop healing while rezing to make sure they have more people to rez.

Breeze can be useful to a human Monk that knows how/when to use it. Heroes, however, spam it when a direct heal would do the job better. If you want an enchantment skill, take Vigorous Spirit instead.

Heal Other is an energy drain skill, especially with no energy management skills. Make her a Mo/E and give her Glyph of Lesser Energy, or make her Mo/Me and give her Power Drain along with some points in Inspiration Magic.

Dunkror, I'm not going to go into detail, but I suggest at least 1 block skill for effective Protecting. I usually give my Prot Hero 2, but that is up to you. Aegis and Guardian are both nice skills, and worth taking unless facing casters only.

Kumu Honua · May 03, 2008, 01:52 PM // 13:52

The most effective healer monk that I have tried (I only have Prophecies/EotN) was a simple bar.

1. Divine Healing
2. Word of Healing
3. Dwayna's Kiss
4. Disabled Rebirth for wipe when monk survives

Nothing else.

Everything else I tried to add simply made him less effective on healing...

Stuart444 · May 03, 2008, 02:45 PM // 14:45

well even though I still dont know what the big deal is about WoH, I have gone out and capped it, I'll have to look through all the suggestions though to decide on the best build out of everything that has been suggested

any more suggestions are welcomed though

Super Igor · May 03, 2008, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart444

well even though I still dont know what the big deal is about WoH

Just use your brain and understand why, simple as that.

Stuart444 · May 03, 2008, 03:34 PM // 15:34

Well, it was very hard to decide but I have made up the new builds, I mainly used Chthon suggestions since both builds seem to be balanced however, I am keeping this thread as reference incase the other suggestions come in handy

I had to do a cap of WoH and buy some of the other skills but its worth it if these monks do better than the one from the first post, here they are:

[Tahlkora's build;OwAC08zjGZjc3+IbatYLBNC]

[Dunkoro's build;OwAC08zjGZj87ur1jN90HNC]

Super Igor · May 03, 2008, 03:43 PM // 15:43

I would replace ethreal light on the second monk with [Signet of rejuvenation], also, you put too much energy pressure on your first monk, way too much.

Imo, give him GoLE instead of [dismiss condition] as they spam that spell way too much for such an energy intencive build which is a disaster with no energy management, so GoLE is a must ([glyph of lesser energy]). Also give him [cure hex] instead of remove hex as its better + less spammable.

On you second monk you should have GoLE instead of [cure hex] and [signet of rejuvenation] instead of [ethereal light].

~Super Igor

~

Stuart444 · May 03, 2008, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

I would replace ethreal light on the second monk with [Signet of rejuvenation], also, you put too much energy pressure on your first monk, way too much.

Imo, give him GoLE instead of [dismiss condition] as they spam that spell way too much for such an energy intencive build which is a disaster with no energy management, so GoLE is a must ([glyph of lesser energy]). Also give him [cure hex] instead of remove hex as its better + less spammable.

On you second monk you should have GoLE instead of [cure hex] and [signet of rejuvenation] instead of [ethereal light].

~Super Igor

~

thanks for that, I'll wait incase other people have more suggestions so I dont keep changing the skills about

zling · May 03, 2008, 03:55 PM // 15:55

both of the op's builds are a F A I L . . .
many people have posted suggestions here but nobody mentioned Shield of Deflection on the Prot hero.
SoD is 1 of the best Prot elites out there, and very useful on heroes as well as human monks!

Super Igor · May 03, 2008, 04:02 PM // 16:02

No u!

Maybe i am terribly wrong, but Guardian>SoD in PvE, SoD's just a waste of elite.